My personal priority ranking in shaping guitar tone: 1.) Playing (If you don't know how to play with gear, the most expensive stuff won't help you) 2.) Amp+Speaker+Pedals (Colours and shapes your tone most effectively) 3.) Strings (because it's the first thing that swings, duh) 4.) Material of your guitar (tonewood, bridge etc.) AND electronics (Pickups, pots): Bad PUs can't reflect wood quality properly, but good PUs can't fix the swinging behaviour of your guitar. 5.) String through vs top load construction (Honestly, I hear 0 difference, but it seems to matter for some people) The choice of tone wood and pickups can be very subjective. Basswood is one of my favourite kind of tonewood, but it's not the best wood for twangy tones. And I don't like Aguilar pickups (at least don't for Metal/Hardcore Bass tones).
As someone said on here already, it would have been better to take a set of pickups and swap them between the two different bodies to really test the tonewood theory (probably even use the same strings between two different bodies to rule out strings as well :-P). If i heard correctly, pickups are never wound the same, even if done by machine. I believe the bridge and nut, as they mentioned in the video, would have more of an impact as well as picks and where you pick on the guitar. My deal with this is the idea that it's ok to put a large markup on guitars that use a specific wood versus a production line guitar when the shape and build are essentially the same, (without going into where their built and setup). Why would I want to pay over $2,000 for a premium guitar that has the same build and features as the production line for less than half that? Even if I made a couple of upgrades to the production line and got it setup the way I want, it's still less than the premium one. If I can find a guitar that is at a decent price and sounds good at initial hearing and feels great, I'm going with that one, and not paying the price difference on a similar one that was built with a preferred "tonewood."
I would say everything makes difference. But if it makes less difference then a different player or a different nut or a bridge then I would say that it does not make enough difference. You can call it a tonewood I call it just a wood. Only difference with it that I care for is is it nice or not or is it light or not. My opinion anyway
Tonewood is a term that is used in different ways by different people. Personally I like the way PRS use it best. That is Tonewood refers to wood that has musical properties on its own for example if you tap it, it rings out musically. The fact is you do not need to use tonewoods to build an electric guitar, I have a guitar that effectively has a cardboard body and luthiers are building guitars with resin based composites now. But combined with the right set pickups and hardware tonewoods can have anything from a small to large impact on how a guitar sounds. From there it's all subjective. FWIW I have a natural finished guitar that has changed its sound after I reapplied Danish oil to it.
@@sevenstrings7eve the real debate is does the material of the guitar change the sound of a guitar. if it does then you could say or try to argue the different species of wood on average have different material characteristics that make the guitar sound different.
C'mon, if you want to make a real tonewood test, use just ONE SET of pickups, electronics, all the hardware and swap them to the other guitar. Even if they are the same brand, these pickups are different. Even you play style is different, the sound is in your hands.
This is one of those things where I think we need to get, say, an unfinished basswood body and an unfinished mahogany body. Put some strings on and record. Then take all the hardware and neck off, put on the other guitar with the same brand of strings and record that. Darrel Braun has the closest thing I've seen to a true test.
Yeah, we need a scientific test. Where the output is analysed properly. I find it hard to believe that it makes much of a difference simply because the signal goes right into the pickup, and out. So tonewood will have to change the signal before it hits the pickup, or change the way the pickup works. And that sounds very unlikely. It's not a hard thing to test. Put the exact same components on a guitar with the best possible wood, and one made of something that is the exact opposite, cardboard, metal or something. Then we can put this debate to death once and for all. What is the pro wood argument? How is the wood supposed to change the sound?
This might well be one of the best and overall most informative guitar-related videos in the entire history of RUclips! You've done a stellar job, guys! :)
I noticed the difference on the teles straight away on the clean sound - we probably had it easier due to the quick cut. On the teles, I agree exactly with what you were hearing and your preferences. On the EMG guitars I definitely preferred the red guitar on the lower gain sounds but the black guitar on the higher gains. Whatever the case, there's a clear difference - probably not stuff you couldn't compensate for at other points in the signal chain but the less you're doing that, the more natural your sound's going to be.
I would like to hear if there is a difference between 2 identical guitars. Would be good to see what the variation in the same pickup models and guitar construction does to the tone. Then we can try and isolate the difference in tone from the wood. If 2 of the same model of guitar sound identical then we can assume that the slight tolerance differences between pickups are not the main reason for tonal differences between instruments. As this is one of the main arguments against tone wood it would be good to actually test this.
What a great, informative video. I was definitely not expecting to hear such a big difference between tonewoods with the EMGs!!! To my ears the biggest differences were actually WITH gain...
Try tuning them to 430 Hz and then compare. You'll notice that it changes the sound, because it drops everything below the resonant frequencies of the wood that you get with 440 tuning, revealing a different set of resonant frequencies. For example, I have a basswood bass. Tuned 440, I get a lot of midrange scoop. Tuned to 432, I get a bass and low mid boost. Tuned to 430, I get the flattest tone, with everything about equal. It's one of the reasons I switched to 430.
The things that have made the most difference to me have been pickups, amps and speakers. I do think there are light gradations in tone that are cumulative with wood type, pots, bridges, etc.
When you find a guitar of interest and there are 2 or 3 in stock. Do make the effort to try playing each guitar unplugged and amped. Sometimes there's no real difference, sometimes there's a big difference. Don't think so much about sensitive guitar topics like tone wood, just remember they are all manmade and physically different objects. In a good guitar the end result is greater than the sum of guitar parts.
my 2 cents: From what i understand, an electric guitar's sound comes from the electromagnetic pickups and not the vibration of the wood. The wood is simply the chassis on which the pickups are held and if you could install the pickups in a bowl of jello and hang the neck/strings over them at the same approximate height you would get the same tone. The resonant frequencies of the wood does not come into the equation of the magnetic properties of the pickup. BTW- that 53 tele is georgous!!
Ironic but maybe a factor, is the battery of the same brand (or even voltage). Eric Johnson is known for hearing the difference in battery's. :D (that's another can of worm for you).
Tonewood is a term that is used in different ways by different people. Personally I like the way PRS use it best. That is Tonewood refers to wood that has musical properties on its own for example if you tap it, it rings out musically. The fact is you do not need to use tonewoods to build an electric guitar, I have a guitar that effectively has a cardboard body and luthiers are building guitars with resin based composites now. But combined with the right set pickups and hardware tonewoods can have anything from a small to large impact on how a guitar sounds. From there it's all subjective. FWIW I have a natural finished guitar that has changed its sound after I reapplied Danish oil to it
I agree with a dude who proposed to compare two totally identical guitars - same model, same year, same factory, same pickups, same everything. I suppose we will hear the difference
WOW GREAT VIDEO GUYS, Listening through headphones its amazing how the subtle differences come alive. I was really surprised by the tonal qualities of same or similar guitars when compared on clean crunch and dirty, even though they are slight in some ways and quite noticeably different in others. Even bolt on v straight was surprising. I think there is proof in good tone woods combinations making a difference. To me its far more important than whats written on a head stock or the price and brand association.Everyone these days get sucked into clever marketing and forget that an electric guitar is only a plank of wood some hardware and strings. What would be interesting I think is if you did a custom shop guitar with its logo hidden v a great sounding cheap guitar, nice 1.
That was obvious to me. Just a few months ago, I was at your shop, testing a bunch of PRS SE Zach Myers. 3 to 4 I think. And they all sounded different, what surprised me a lot! I mean, it was literally the same guitar. I took the one with the most low end. ;) And my conclusion was, that it's not just the wood, neither the price or something else. Every guitar resonates it's own way. At this point I decided: should I ever buy a new one, I have to play it against others in the same range. And that's why I prefer to go to Thomann or some other guitar shop and not to order a guitar online again… ;) Cause what I experienced too, was, that if you play a few guitars, that are all the same, there will be one, where you start to feel a connection with the tone and how the tone makes you work with the instrument. You act different and you fall into some kind of noodling around and forgetting the time. And then you get a bond with the sound, this special guitar delivers. That feels great! ;)
One pickup set up on identically built guitars of different woods not played by you. Hand them to another guitarist sitting in a control room with just the sound being piped in. Without knowing which body and how the player was playing can you tell the difference. No you won’t at best you would be guessing in fact use five bodies of different woods and multiple guitarists just to make it beyond 50/50. Here is another cheaper way take one guitar and have it being played in another room not connected to one your in just the amp. Have the guitarist alternate touching the headstock to another piece of wood playing then separating it and playing when the head stock touches another piece of wood it sound and plays differently in your hands and the sound off the body changes significantly but what do you hear in the other room. It’s not even a debate any longer it was settled and the tone wood side lost
ash is all over the place; I've played amazing guitars, extremely responsive and there's others that are very uninspiring... basswood guitars (esp. older japanese guitars) always sound good and consistent
To make an experiment 100% clear you should've taken just all the components of one guitar, but for the body ofc. , and swap them into diff bodies and as the result you wont hear any difference in clean and driven sound But nice vid, thx
NicklausSIR2 if they remain the same those things would be the same) btw, funny thing, there is not a great difference between upgraded HB vs. that fender, there is a small difference like between any 2 different instruments
Well what I mean is the torque of the screws could be different and in pure theory make a change so it should be excluded as much as possible from an eventual trial. But fundamentally I agree with you, there's little difference from an instrument to another, and as someone who does some recording at home, I am convincined that the playing, the signal chain (pickup, effects, amp, cab) and all the post-EQing weigh much much more than any quirk the would could produce.
Finally some people with a clue of something. Outside the signal, what makes most difference is whatever touch the strings... nuts, bridge and pick, basically.
Finally someone who understands what is meant by 'excluding as many variables as possible'!!! Most people tend to be too stupid to even comprehend that it matters a lot for a decent experiment to do that. In the context of the tonewood debate lets not forget that guitar stores posting these video's don't want a fair experiment. If they would do a proper experiment and proof that it doesn't matter (as much) as they say it does to buy a more expensive guitar that has better wood they would be running themselves out of business rather sooner then later.
The ULTIMATE EXPLANATION. If you are planning to say ANYTHING about TONEWOOD, please CONSIDER THIS FIRST and save us all some time: I hope tonewoods are true but so far I’ve only seen evidence to the contrary. Eg, When any wave “ricochets” (including a guitar string off a nut/bridge) the returning wave is ALWAYS identical to the original outgoing wave, apart from its lower amplitude (volume) and phase. The shape of the wave doesn’t change from the bounce. The shape only changes when the waves bouncing back and forth interfere with one another. The interference shapes the final wave and tone. When the wave stabilizes (seconds after plucking), the wave reaches its final shape. The final shape can easily be deconstructed into its constituent wave parts. Those constituent waves are always identical to the original outgoing wave, apart from amplitude (loudness) and phase. In other words, the proportion of amplitude (volume) lost at each bounce is the same for all frequencies. The wood (or any material) can not “suck out” or subtract specific individual frequencies from the string to shape tone. There is no debate here - it simply can’t. Therefore, the choice of material has no effect on the shape of the wave or, by extension, the tone. The shape never changes (apart from interference) and neither does the tone. Simplified Example: if the original wave has the values “12,-12,12,-12” the out-of-phase returning wave has “-10, 10,-10 10”. When combined, this final wave (tone) has the values: “2,-2, 2,-2” (12-10; -10+12...). The returning wave would NEVER have values like “10, 10, -10, 5”. Never. Impossible. Can not happen. Does not happen. If it happened, we would need to rewrite physics. This is true for all waves. This is not some crazy idea of mine. It is nothing new or spectacular. It is basic physics, and it has been known and documented in physics for a long time. It is completely verifiable, and it is on the same confidence level as “Conservation of Energy”, F=MA and e=mc^2. There is nothing new here. So summarize: 1. Plucking a string sends waves through the string to the nut, which bounces back. 2. The bounce reduces amplitude, but does not change the shape. 3. The bouncing waves interfere to form the final wave shape, ie the final tone. 4. When analyzed and picked apart, the final wave is always the sum of multiple copies of the original outgoing wave, at different amplitudes and phases. These physics clearly supports that body material is irrelevant, and that it is impossible for “tonewoods” to shape sounds on an electric guitar. I invite anyone who can disprove this, or anyone who is aware of physics pointing to the contrary, to inform me. I would happily look at it. I actually hope to be disproven because I really wish that the tonewood thing was true.
There is a growing trend for lighter guitars lately. You can feel that around your next instead of "tone",something so subjective. below 3.3 kgs = light 3.3-3.6 medium 3.6 or more heavy
The fender sounds bigger and thicker and the Harley Benton sounds thinner and quieter. Tonewood makes a difference,but you only really notice up loud on a gig....
Great video! Am happy with that you guys did this comparison *with 2 differing opinions on-screen*, all the cred to you for that. As a "science-guy" I'm very happy with watching you have a discussion about the subject in this video rather than making the video to push a certain viewpoint, which is the norm on youtube. So thumbs up from me! 11:31 "a lightweight ash body will give you such a mid push" Is that true? I watched this whole demo thinking the ash guitar was a heavy one until you mentioned this haha. Or if we turn the question around, how would a heavy ash body differ? Even more mid push? I want to strike a blow for the left guys defense here. 18:04 "if you know about tonewoods, it makes sense" No, it doesn't. :) If we check for example the BodyWoodOptions page on Warmoth.com we learn that alder is in the middle of the spectrum with "balanced with equal doses of lows, mids and highs" while mahogany is all the way to the warm/dark side, with "warm and full" tone. So, according to this we should experience more bass (which you guys notice) but not more treble (which you guys also notice, and is very clear in the video). So my counter-statement is that no, it does not make any sense. :) Edit: Just have to put this final thing into this comment as well! The final part, with heavy distortion. From only watching the video, I would claim that the sound is >99% the same. It's possible that the sound in the room was different, but it would be curious to hear you guys (who made the video) listen to the video again and say if you still think there's such a major difference. I think the heavy distorted sounds were definitely the most similar ones.
i cant hear the difference in the first jam but for some reason my left speaker picks up the tele better and my right the ltd yet your voices ring through both, could we say the difference is in frequencies we do not hear ourselves without trained ears??
Since I own a neck through bass guitar, I'm not a huge fan of this kind of construction anymore. It is more expensive and takes more effort to make, not modification friendly and has less attack in tone.
Alder sounded having more high-mids when clean. Basswood is more scooped. For distortion did sound better to me, with more agressive picking noise and boomy chugging sound. Now I get it why many metal guitars like from Ibanez are made with basswood.
There has to be a powerful reason for NOBODY conducting blind tests about the matter, specually the BIG BRANDS. They are HIGHLY intereste in keeping people utterly confused about the TONEWOOD dilema. "Just in case, I´ll pay those extra 500 bucks...I don´t want be taken for a fool"...OK...You´ll not be taken...YOU ARE!!!
Did both telecasters have the same bridge and nut? Same goes for the other two guitars. I am not sure tonewood has zero influence on the sound but I am pretty confident bridge and nut material and construction have far greater impact. One would also be able to argue that the way the nut is grooved makes a HUGE difference in tone and playability. Also, the same guitar played by 2 different guys will sound different as well... There is much more important stuff regarding electric guitars. Tonewood may or may not be a thing, but getting good playing cheap guitar is 100 times better than not being able to play even the best instrument :)
If it sounds different it doesn´t mean different is bad or good. It´s just different. It all depends on your personal taste. And if you have no taste you were born without a personality.
If we assume that this test is free of flaws and valid, what does it tell us? You your self mentioned the noticeable weight differences between the tellies and the wide range of weights guitars with the same body shape made from the same wood can have. So, is there an inherent sound to each type of wood or is the density the deciding factor? If it is the first then two guitars made from the same woods should sound the same, even when one weighs in at 3 kg and the other 4 kg. You'd obviously have to use the same electronics and hardware. If it is the second and the density of the material is what makes the difference than the woods used don't matter at all. I've watched some videos regarding the tonewood debate. I've seen various tests from people who believe in tonewood and people who think it doesn't matter. In some test there was an audible difference and in some there wasn't. Whatever the reason for that is, even when there was an audible difference it was so small that changing the pick ups or playing with the eq of the amp could easily fix that. I've come to the conclusion that i don't care about wood anymore. I rather take a look at the pick ups that a guitar comes with, as it tells me a lot more about the character of the sound.
It means, keep repeating the same lie. Wood makes a huge difference in an acoustic guitar, no argument. It makes NO difference in an electric solid. Never did, never will. The electronics make a huge difference, the player makes a huge difference. One of my "collection" is a £90 Epi LP junior. Plywood body and cheap pick up. Sounds great through my ENGL on clean channel. Sorry guys, wood has very poor electromagnetic properties. AND your test has so many holes in it. Keep drinking the Kool Aid. (Google, Rev Jim Jones)
It's funny, that for the "wood makes no differece"- people, EVERY OTHER part of the guitar make a difference in sound if swaped out-- the only strict exception is the biggest, the heaviest, the center of the guitar, the chassis of the components- the BODY. Hahahahahahaaa, Im dying lol
Mustafa Adaoglu The whole guitar (neck and body) is a vibrating system. The strings are tight on the bridge, nut, tuners, ferules- also these components have a tight contact with the woods. So, the slight vibration (resonance) of the body and the significant vibration of the neck attached tightly to the body will influence the vibration of the strings. The pickups wiil pick up the changed voicing (timbre) of the guitar. But then again, the different woods and dimensions of it are just a minimal factor in the sound-chain. But these factors can add up, or anulate each other. So basically woods are not as important for argueing intensivelly. Minor importance. Most important are the fingers and a simply well build guitar and components IMO. Peace 😊
my 2 cents: From what i understand, an electric guitar's sound comes from the electromagnetic pickups and not the vibration of the wood. The wood is simply the chassis on which the pickups are held and if you could install the pickups in a bowl of jello and hang the neck/strings over them at the same approximate height you would get the same tone. The resonant frequencies of the wood does not come into the equation of the magnetic properties of the pickup. BTW- that 53 tele is beautiful!!
hello Pied a' terre,...you are kinda correct...but all pickups are to some extent "microphonic"...if they are too microphonic, they will cause feedback.....try this...turn your Les Paul humbucker up all the way and turn up your amp. Now scream right into your pickup...your voice is being picked up...ah!!! .NOW.....If I was a smart "pro" tonewoods guy; I'd just take the worst feedback from hell pickups and slap em on a guitar...oh...you'd hear the wood!!...or I'd take a nice wax potted pickup that didn't howl and slap it on a guitar...you wouldn't hear much wood....btw Some very crappy feedbacky pickups, sound very good as low volume jazz pickups for that reason.
Bolt-on neck joints are more ridged due to the clamping force of the bolts. Often people who paid thousands for a Gibson guitar cannot accept it to be true.
But the pickup (which are the most important factor) are not positioned the same....... who cares about tone wood... just pick a guitar that you thing sounds great... there are bad toned guitar with each material and vice versa....
so ive tried the same thing, cause i was wondering why my prs muhok sounds so different to the Ltd Cavalera, they both loaded with SD aktive blackouts. so ive recorded a guitar track with both and pick the same pu in the guitars, the same settings (strings, pu height) and yes there a huge sound difference, the ltd has much more lowend and less brighter tone and the mushok is the complete opposite ( less low end and much more brighter and open sound). i dont give a fuck about tonewood TIL TODAY....
@@manuelharlander8604 Unless the guitars are carbon copies _except_ for the type of wood, the experiment is invalid. Also you'd have to use calibrated equipment to actually measure the differences.
Guys, guys you're great and all my love to you, but as for the tonewood discussion, we all know its bullshit, right ? In doubt go back to phisics principles and start some more interesting and actual subject...
My personal priority ranking in shaping guitar tone:
1.) Playing (If you don't know how to play with gear, the most expensive stuff won't help you)
2.) Amp+Speaker+Pedals (Colours and shapes your tone most effectively)
3.) Strings (because it's the first thing that swings, duh)
4.) Material of your guitar (tonewood, bridge etc.) AND electronics (Pickups, pots):
Bad PUs can't reflect wood quality properly, but good PUs can't fix the swinging behaviour of your guitar.
5.) String through vs top load construction (Honestly, I hear 0 difference, but it seems to matter for some people)
The choice of tone wood and pickups can be very subjective. Basswood is one of my favourite kind of tonewood, but it's not the best wood for twangy tones. And I don't like Aguilar pickups (at least don't for Metal/Hardcore Bass tones).
As someone said on here already, it would have been better to take a set of pickups and swap them between the two different bodies to really test the tonewood theory (probably even use the same strings between two different bodies to rule out strings as well :-P). If i heard correctly, pickups are never wound the same, even if done by machine. I believe the bridge and nut, as they mentioned in the video, would have more of an impact as well as picks and where you pick on the guitar.
My deal with this is the idea that it's ok to put a large markup on guitars that use a specific wood versus a production line guitar when the shape and build are essentially the same, (without going into where their built and setup). Why would I want to pay over $2,000 for a premium guitar that has the same build and features as the production line for less than half that? Even if I made a couple of upgrades to the production line and got it setup the way I want, it's still less than the premium one.
If I can find a guitar that is at a decent price and sounds good at initial hearing and feels great, I'm going with that one, and not paying the price difference on a similar one that was built with a preferred "tonewood."
I would say everything makes difference. But if it makes less difference then a different player or a different nut or a bridge then I would say that it does not make enough difference. You can call it a tonewood I call it just a wood. Only difference with it that I care for is is it nice or not or is it light or not.
My opinion anyway
Tonewood is a term that is used in different ways by different people. Personally I like the way PRS use it best. That is Tonewood refers to wood that has musical properties on its own for example if you tap it, it rings out musically. The fact is you do not need to use tonewoods to build an electric guitar, I have a guitar that effectively has a cardboard body and luthiers are building guitars with resin based composites now. But combined with the right set pickups and hardware tonewoods can have anything from a small to large impact on how a guitar sounds. From there it's all subjective. FWIW I have a natural finished guitar that has changed its sound after I reapplied Danish oil to it.
@@sevenstrings7eve the real debate is does the material of the guitar change the sound of a guitar. if it does then you could say or try to argue the different species of wood on average have different material characteristics that make the guitar sound different.
C'mon, if you want to make a real tonewood test, use just ONE SET of pickups, electronics, all the hardware and swap them to the other guitar.
Even if they are the same brand, these pickups are different.
Even you play style is different, the sound is in your hands.
This is one of those things where I think we need to get, say, an unfinished basswood body and an unfinished mahogany body. Put some strings on and record. Then take all the hardware and neck off, put on the other guitar with the same brand of strings and record that. Darrel Braun has the closest thing I've seen to a true test.
Yeah, we need a scientific test. Where the output is analysed properly. I find it hard to believe that it makes much of a difference simply because the signal goes right into the pickup, and out. So tonewood will have to change the signal before it hits the pickup, or change the way the pickup works. And that sounds very unlikely. It's not a hard thing to test. Put the exact same components on a guitar with the best possible wood, and one made of something that is the exact opposite, cardboard, metal or something. Then we can put this debate to death once and for all. What is the pro wood argument? How is the wood supposed to change the sound?
Oh, my, you've opened up a can of worms :)))
Astoriculus A can of wood worms ;) //Philipp
This might well be one of the best and overall most informative guitar-related videos in the entire history of RUclips!
You've done a stellar job, guys! :)
Thanks so much :) //Philipp
I noticed the difference on the teles straight away on the clean sound - we probably had it easier due to the quick cut.
On the teles, I agree exactly with what you were hearing and your preferences. On the EMG guitars I definitely preferred the red guitar on the lower gain sounds but the black guitar on the higher gains.
Whatever the case, there's a clear difference - probably not stuff you couldn't compensate for at other points in the signal chain but the less you're doing that, the more natural your sound's going to be.
I would like to hear if there is a difference between 2 identical guitars. Would be good to see what the variation in the same pickup models and guitar construction does to the tone. Then we can try and isolate the difference in tone from the wood. If 2 of the same model of guitar sound identical then we can assume that the slight tolerance differences between pickups are not the main reason for tonal differences between instruments. As this is one of the main arguments against tone wood it would be good to actually test this.
What a great, informative video. I was definitely not expecting to hear such a big difference between tonewoods with the EMGs!!! To my ears the biggest differences were actually WITH gain...
Try tuning them to 430 Hz and then compare. You'll notice that it changes the sound, because it drops everything below the resonant frequencies of the wood that you get with 440 tuning, revealing a different set of resonant frequencies. For example, I have a basswood bass. Tuned 440, I get a lot of midrange scoop. Tuned to 432, I get a bass and low mid boost. Tuned to 430, I get the flattest tone, with everything about equal. It's one of the reasons I switched to 430.
The things that have made the most difference to me have been pickups, amps and speakers. I do think there are light gradations in tone that are cumulative with wood type, pots, bridges, etc.
In a properly built, solid body, electric guitar, tonewood means absolutely DICK!
When you find a guitar of interest and there are 2 or 3 in stock. Do make the effort to try playing each guitar unplugged and amped. Sometimes there's no real difference, sometimes there's a big difference. Don't think so much about sensitive guitar topics like tone wood, just remember they are all manmade and physically different objects. In a good guitar the end result is greater than the sum of guitar parts.
my 2 cents: From what i understand, an electric guitar's sound comes from the electromagnetic pickups and not the vibration of the wood. The wood is simply the chassis on which the pickups are held and if you could install the pickups in a bowl of jello and hang the neck/strings over them at the same approximate height you would get the same tone. The resonant frequencies of the wood does not come into the equation of the magnetic properties of the pickup. BTW- that 53 tele is georgous!!
Ironic but maybe a factor, is the battery of the same brand (or even voltage). Eric Johnson is known for hearing the difference in battery's. :D (that's another can of worm for you).
Tonewood is a term that is used in different ways by different people. Personally I like the way PRS use it best. That is Tonewood refers to wood that has musical properties on its own for example if you tap it, it rings out musically. The fact is you do not need to use tonewoods to build an electric guitar, I have a guitar that effectively has a cardboard body and luthiers are building guitars with resin based composites now. But combined with the right set pickups and hardware tonewoods can have anything from a small to large impact on how a guitar sounds. From there it's all subjective. FWIW I have a natural finished guitar that has changed its sound after I reapplied Danish oil to it
yes these are different woods but equal shapes :) you can have the same capacitor size, one is darker and one ist brighter
Great video guys 👍🏼
I agree with a dude who proposed to compare two totally identical guitars - same model, same year, same factory, same pickups, same everything. I suppose we will hear the difference
WOW GREAT VIDEO GUYS, Listening through headphones its amazing how the subtle differences come alive. I was really surprised by the tonal qualities of same or similar guitars when compared on clean crunch and dirty, even though they are slight in some ways and quite noticeably different in others. Even bolt on v straight was surprising. I think there is proof in good tone woods combinations making a difference. To me its far more important than whats written on a head stock or the price and brand association.Everyone these days get sucked into clever marketing and forget that an electric guitar is only a plank of wood some hardware and strings. What would be interesting I think is if you did a custom shop guitar with its logo hidden v a great sounding cheap guitar, nice 1.
That was obvious to me. Just a few months ago, I was at your shop, testing a bunch of PRS SE Zach Myers. 3 to 4 I think. And they all sounded different, what surprised me a lot! I mean, it was literally the same guitar. I took the one with the most low end. ;) And my conclusion was, that it's not just the wood, neither the price or something else. Every guitar resonates it's own way. At this point I decided: should I ever buy a new one, I have to play it against others in the same range. And that's why I prefer to go to Thomann or some other guitar shop and not to order a guitar online again… ;) Cause what I experienced too, was, that if you play a few guitars, that are all the same, there will be one, where you start to feel a connection with the tone and how the tone makes you work with the instrument. You act different and you fall into some kind of noodling around and forgetting the time. And then you get a bond with the sound, this special guitar delivers. That feels great! ;)
One pickup set up on identically built guitars of different woods not played by you. Hand them to another guitarist sitting in a control room with just the sound being piped in. Without knowing which body and how the player was playing can you tell the difference. No you won’t at best you would be guessing in fact use five bodies of different woods and multiple guitarists just to make it beyond 50/50. Here is another cheaper way take one guitar and have it being played in another room not connected to one your in just the amp. Have the guitarist alternate touching the headstock to another piece of wood playing then separating it and playing when the head stock touches another piece of wood it sound and plays differently in your hands and the sound off the body changes significantly but what do you hear in the other room.
It’s not even a debate any longer it was settled and the tone wood side lost
ash is all over the place; I've played amazing guitars, extremely responsive and there's others that are very uninspiring... basswood guitars (esp. older japanese guitars) always sound good and consistent
Did you go with exactly the same tonme settings on both guitars? Beacuse i hear quite the difference in the clean picking thing
Of course, Sensei Keiken - everything is exactly the same. Would not make sense otherwise ;) //Philipp
Wow, different sounds from two physically different guitars and different players. Who would have guessed.
To make an experiment 100% clear you should've taken just all the components of one guitar, but for the body ofc. , and swap them into diff bodies and as the result you wont hear any difference in clean and driven sound
But nice vid, thx
Also tighten the bridge and neck with the same tension. And obviously double blind test to exclude confirmation bias.
NicklausSIR2 if they remain the same those things would be the same)
btw, funny thing, there is not a great difference between upgraded HB vs. that fender, there is a small difference like between any 2 different instruments
Well what I mean is the torque of the screws could be different and in pure theory make a change so it should be excluded as much as possible from an eventual trial.
But fundamentally I agree with you, there's little difference from an instrument to another, and as someone who does some recording at home, I am convincined that the playing, the signal chain (pickup, effects, amp, cab) and all the post-EQing weigh much much more than any quirk the would could produce.
Finally some people with a clue of something. Outside the signal, what makes most difference is whatever touch the strings... nuts, bridge and pick, basically.
Finally someone who understands what is meant by 'excluding as many variables as possible'!!! Most people tend to be too stupid to even comprehend that it matters a lot for a decent experiment to do that. In the context of the tonewood debate lets not forget that guitar stores posting these video's don't want a fair experiment. If they would do a proper experiment and proof that it doesn't matter (as much) as they say it does to buy a more expensive guitar that has better wood they would be running themselves out of business rather sooner then later.
The ULTIMATE EXPLANATION. If you are planning to say ANYTHING about TONEWOOD, please CONSIDER THIS FIRST and save us all some time: I hope tonewoods are true but so far I’ve only seen evidence to the contrary. Eg, When any wave “ricochets” (including a guitar string off a nut/bridge) the returning wave is ALWAYS identical to the original outgoing wave, apart from its lower amplitude (volume) and phase. The shape of the wave doesn’t change from the bounce. The shape only changes when the waves bouncing back and forth interfere with one another.
The interference shapes the final wave and tone. When the wave stabilizes (seconds after plucking), the wave reaches its final shape. The final shape can easily be deconstructed into its constituent wave parts. Those constituent waves are always identical to the original outgoing wave, apart from amplitude (loudness) and phase.
In other words, the proportion of amplitude (volume) lost at each bounce is the same for all frequencies. The wood (or any material) can not “suck out” or subtract specific individual frequencies from the string to shape tone. There is no debate here - it simply can’t. Therefore, the choice of material has no effect on the shape of the wave or, by extension, the tone. The shape never changes (apart from interference) and neither does the tone.
Simplified Example: if the original wave has the values “12,-12,12,-12” the out-of-phase returning wave has “-10, 10,-10 10”. When combined, this final wave (tone) has the values: “2,-2, 2,-2” (12-10; -10+12...). The returning wave would NEVER have values like “10, 10, -10, 5”. Never. Impossible. Can not happen. Does not happen. If it happened, we would need to rewrite physics. This is true for all waves.
This is not some crazy idea of mine. It is nothing new or spectacular. It is basic physics, and it has been known and documented in physics for a long time. It is completely verifiable, and it is on the same confidence level as “Conservation of Energy”, F=MA and e=mc^2. There is nothing new here.
So summarize:
1. Plucking a string sends waves through the string to the nut, which bounces back.
2. The bounce reduces amplitude, but does not change the shape.
3. The bouncing waves interfere to form the final wave shape, ie the final tone.
4. When analyzed and picked apart, the final wave is always the sum of multiple copies of the original outgoing wave, at different amplitudes and phases.
These physics clearly supports that body material is irrelevant, and that it is impossible for “tonewoods” to shape sounds on an electric guitar. I invite anyone who can disprove this, or anyone who is aware of physics pointing to the contrary, to inform me. I would happily look at it. I actually hope to be disproven because I really wish that the tonewood thing was true.
There is a growing trend for lighter guitars lately. You can feel that around your next instead of "tone",something so subjective.
below 3.3 kgs = light
3.3-3.6 medium
3.6 or more heavy
The fender sounds bigger and thicker and the Harley Benton sounds thinner and quieter. Tonewood makes a difference,but you only really notice up loud on a gig....
What is the difference in feel on those 2 guitars?
Great video! Am happy with that you guys did this comparison *with 2 differing opinions on-screen*, all the cred to you for that. As a "science-guy" I'm very happy with watching you have a discussion about the subject in this video rather than making the video to push a certain viewpoint, which is the norm on youtube. So thumbs up from me!
11:31 "a lightweight ash body will give you such a mid push" Is that true? I watched this whole demo thinking the ash guitar was a heavy one until you mentioned this haha. Or if we turn the question around, how would a heavy ash body differ? Even more mid push?
I want to strike a blow for the left guys defense here. 18:04 "if you know about tonewoods, it makes sense" No, it doesn't. :) If we check for example the BodyWoodOptions page on Warmoth.com we learn that alder is in the middle of the spectrum with "balanced with equal doses of lows, mids and highs" while mahogany is all the way to the warm/dark side, with "warm and full" tone. So, according to this we should experience more bass (which you guys notice) but not more treble (which you guys also notice, and is very clear in the video). So my counter-statement is that no, it does not make any sense. :)
Edit: Just have to put this final thing into this comment as well! The final part, with heavy distortion. From only watching the video, I would claim that the sound is >99% the same. It's possible that the sound in the room was different, but it would be curious to hear you guys (who made the video) listen to the video again and say if you still think there's such a major difference. I think the heavy distorted sounds were definitely the most similar ones.
i cant hear the difference in the first jam but for some reason my left speaker picks up the tele better and my right the ltd yet your voices ring through both, could we say the difference is in frequencies we do not hear ourselves without trained ears??
I think hard v soft wood makes more tonal difference than weight. Hence why Ed went to basswood and poplar.
I have two rosewood neck strats with alder bodies,same pickups and same Bridges and machineheads and nuts. They sound totally different ...
Tonewood has already been debunked as a myth.
Tell that to PRS. He's a builder.
I'm a n00b @ guitar but the difference between the 1st two ones is huge for sure.
Since I own a neck through bass guitar, I'm not a huge fan of this kind of construction anymore. It is more expensive and takes more effort to make, not modification friendly and has less attack in tone.
Alder sounded having more high-mids when clean. Basswood is more scooped. For distortion did sound better to me, with more agressive picking noise and boomy chugging sound. Now I get it why many metal guitars like from Ibanez are made with basswood.
I prefer the sound of a black guitar for metal, other colours don't sound as metal. Sharktooth inlays also help a lot with this.
Second EMG guitar sounded louder and brighter to me, probably mostly down to the bolt on.
There has to be a powerful reason for NOBODY conducting blind tests about the matter, specually the BIG BRANDS. They are HIGHLY intereste in keeping people utterly confused about the TONEWOOD dilema. "Just in case, I´ll pay those extra 500 bucks...I don´t want be taken for a fool"...OK...You´ll not be taken...YOU ARE!!!
thanks for this alder mahogany bolt on an neck through test
The difference is more about feel, on the audience perspective, it is not obvious, even with different pickup
The most important thing from this test: EMGs suck at crunch =)
Something's up with the volume/tone knobs on the Kirk Hammet guitar.
Right on I was just unable to figure out which knob did what!haha Turns out the volume knob is in the middle on this particular model
Did both telecasters have the same bridge and nut? Same goes for the other two guitars. I am not sure tonewood has zero influence on the sound but I am pretty confident bridge and nut material and construction have far greater impact. One would also be able to argue that the way the nut is grooved makes a HUGE difference in tone and playability. Also, the same guitar played by 2 different guys will sound different as well... There is much more important stuff regarding electric guitars. Tonewood may or may not be a thing, but getting good playing cheap guitar is 100 times better than not being able to play even the best instrument :)
True, good playing is the most important part, but regarding your question on bridge and nut: Everything identical ;) //Philipp
The description says Basswood vs Alder but its Basswood vs Ash :P
Turn up the VOLUME to hear the difference....
If it sounds different it doesn´t mean different is bad or good. It´s just different. It all depends on your personal taste. And if you have no taste you were born without a personality.
If we assume that this test is free of flaws and valid, what does it tell us? You your self mentioned the noticeable weight differences between the tellies and the wide range of weights guitars with the same body shape made from the same wood can have. So, is there an inherent sound to each type of wood or is the density the deciding factor? If it is the first then two guitars made from the same woods should sound the same, even when one weighs in at 3 kg and the other 4 kg. You'd obviously have to use the same electronics and hardware. If it is the second and the density of the material is what makes the difference than the woods used don't matter at all.
I've watched some videos regarding the tonewood debate. I've seen various tests from people who believe in tonewood and people who think it doesn't matter. In some test there was an audible difference and in some there wasn't. Whatever the reason for that is, even when there was an audible difference it was so small that changing the pick ups or playing with the eq of the amp could easily fix that. I've come to the conclusion that i don't care about wood anymore. I rather take a look at the pick ups that a guitar comes with, as it tells me a lot more about the character of the sound.
Keep drinking the Kool Aid guys.
biggestgerbil what?
It means, keep repeating the same lie. Wood makes a huge difference in an acoustic guitar, no argument. It makes NO difference in an electric solid. Never did, never will. The electronics make a huge difference, the player makes a huge difference. One of my "collection" is a £90 Epi LP junior. Plywood body and cheap pick up. Sounds great through my ENGL on clean channel. Sorry guys, wood has very poor electromagnetic properties. AND your test has so many holes in it. Keep drinking the Kool Aid. (Google, Rev Jim Jones)
It's funny, that for the "wood makes no differece"- people, EVERY OTHER part of the guitar make a difference in sound if swaped out-- the only strict exception is the biggest, the heaviest, the center of the guitar, the chassis of the components- the BODY. Hahahahahahaaa, Im dying lol
Mustafa Adaoglu The whole guitar (neck and body) is a vibrating system. The strings are tight on the bridge, nut, tuners, ferules- also these components have a tight contact with the woods. So, the slight vibration (resonance) of the body and the significant vibration of the neck attached tightly to the body will influence the vibration of the strings. The pickups wiil pick up the changed voicing (timbre) of the guitar. But then again, the different woods and dimensions of it are just a minimal factor in the sound-chain. But these factors can add up, or anulate each other. So basically woods are not as important for argueing intensivelly. Minor importance. Most important are the fingers and a simply well build guitar and components IMO. Peace 😊
Now the question is :
Does the difference justify the price differencial ? Not sure...
my 2 cents: From what i understand, an electric guitar's sound comes from the electromagnetic pickups and not the vibration of the wood. The wood is simply the chassis on which the pickups are held and if you could install the pickups in a bowl of jello and hang the neck/strings over them at the same approximate height you would get the same tone. The resonant frequencies of the wood does not come into the equation of the magnetic properties of the pickup. BTW- that 53 tele is beautiful!!
hello Pied a' terre,...you are kinda correct...but all pickups are to some extent "microphonic"...if they are too microphonic, they will cause feedback.....try this...turn your Les Paul humbucker up all the way and turn up your amp. Now scream right into your pickup...your voice is being picked up...ah!!! .NOW.....If I was a smart "pro" tonewoods guy; I'd just take the worst feedback from hell pickups and slap em on a guitar...oh...you'd hear the wood!!...or I'd take a nice wax potted pickup that didn't howl and slap it on a guitar...you wouldn't hear much wood....btw Some very crappy feedbacky pickups, sound very good as low volume jazz pickups for that reason.
Bolt-on neck joints are more ridged due to the clamping force of the bolts. Often people who paid thousands for a Gibson guitar cannot accept it to be true.
Yea, it'ssadly true. Also the added weight with screws and plate in the center of the "bow" has its impact on vibration.
orange one is more articulate
Hammett & Slash :DDD
But the pickup (which are the most important factor) are not positioned the same....... who cares about tone wood... just pick a guitar that you thing sounds great... there are bad toned guitar with each material and vice versa....
So... if you want to know if tonewood is a thing, ask someone who is trying to sell you tonewood... lol ok.
More fuel in the fire
newatlas.com/guitar-wood-types/58139/?amp=true
so ive tried the same thing, cause i was wondering why my prs muhok sounds so different to the Ltd Cavalera, they both loaded with SD aktive blackouts. so ive recorded a guitar track with both and pick the same pu in the guitars, the same settings (strings, pu height) and yes there a huge sound difference, the ltd has much more lowend and less brighter tone and the mushok is the complete opposite ( less low end and much more brighter and open sound). i dont give a fuck about tonewood TIL TODAY....
Are you serious? Those are 2 _totally_ different guitars. It's not just the pickups that make the difference.
@@MrClassicmetal ??? Read my comment again^^
@@manuelharlander8604 You've compared an ESP with a PRS...
@@MrClassicmetal yeah and i said its totally different with the same pus, strings , etc.
So tonewood exists.
@@manuelharlander8604 Unless the guitars are carbon copies _except_ for the type of wood, the experiment is invalid.
Also you'd have to use calibrated equipment to actually measure the differences.
No flaws at all ... no really ...
sigh...
Worst scientific study ever
What did you expect? _Generally_ guitarists are not good at conducting scientific experiments. They simply lack the basic fundamentals to do so.
The Comparison is totally invalid ... dislike
Tonewood Lives Matter!
Guys, guys you're great and all my love to you, but as for the tonewood discussion, we all know its bullshit, right ? In doubt go back to phisics principles and start some more interesting and actual subject...